Comments on: Just One Way? http://rlemmel.com/blog/2008/07/14/just-one-way/ How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, who publishes peace, who brings good news of happiness, who publishes salvation, who says to Zion, "Your God reigns." Isaiah 52:7 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:01:29 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: randy http://rlemmel.com/blog/2008/07/14/just-one-way/comment-page-1/#comment-24 randy Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:54:28 +0000 http://rlemmel.com/blog/?p=24#comment-24 These are very good comments by Ryan and Glenn, but I do not think they are the prevalent views in American evangelicalism today. God's way of saving the world will look like foolishness to the rest of the world, and even to we Christians it will sometimes appear that way as our default setting as 'theologians of glory' surfaces. After all, who can save or transform the world by laying aside themselves and serving others? What is needed is power, political activism, and the like. Foolish Christians, thinking they can redeem the world with all this talk of grace. when what is needed is more law. So we have political candidates pandering to evangelicals, and evangelicals relishing their role in the political process. And all the while we have a kingdom that is not of this world, yet entering and overcoming this world through the foolishness of the proclamation of the cross. And it is this proclamation of the cross that rules out all inclusivism. It is the confrontation of fallen humanity with the message of the cross where the renewal by the Holy Spirit occurs. So the church is formed by the message, and then given the charge of proclaiming the message that formed it. This is God's plan of salvation, bringing the wisdom of the world to naught, by a display of weakness and foolishness. "Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has become His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen." - Romans 11:33-36 randy These are very good comments by Ryan and Glenn, but I do not think they are the prevalent views in American evangelicalism today. God’s way of saving the world will look like foolishness to the rest of the world, and even to we Christians it will sometimes appear that way as our default setting as ‘theologians of glory’ surfaces. After all, who can save or transform the world by laying aside themselves and serving others? What is needed is power, political activism, and the like. Foolish Christians, thinking they can redeem the world with all this talk of grace. when what is needed is more law. So we have political candidates pandering to evangelicals, and evangelicals relishing their role in the political process. And all the while we have a kingdom that is not of this world, yet entering and overcoming this world through the foolishness of the proclamation of the cross.

And it is this proclamation of the cross that rules out all inclusivism. It is the confrontation of fallen humanity with the message of the cross where the renewal by the Holy Spirit occurs. So the church is formed by the message, and then given the charge of proclaiming the message that formed it. This is God’s plan of salvation, bringing the wisdom of the world to naught, by a display of weakness and foolishness.

“Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has become His counselor? Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.” – Romans 11:33-36

randy

]]> By: Glenn Baaten http://rlemmel.com/blog/2008/07/14/just-one-way/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Glenn Baaten Sat, 19 Jul 2008 14:42:52 +0000 http://rlemmel.com/blog/?p=24#comment-23 Of course we all agree that the church is material to God's economy of salvation. As St. Paul shares, "How will they know, if they haven't heard, and how will they hear, unless someone preaches to them", and so we must share the faith; and further, "to some He gave gifts...(such that all might serve various capacities in the Body of Christ)... that we all might come into the full measure of the stature of Christ." So the church is effectively Christ's presence in the midst of fallen humanity: bringing those as converts into His saving grace through the power of His word preached, and growing those as disciples into His very presence through the power of the Holy Spirit, as the life of Christ is corporately lived out. And all of this done, as Keller wisely reminds us, not in a posture of spiritual superiority or arrogance, but QUITE THE OPPOSITE! A spirit of self-emptying love and humility. Against such a spirit, the world has no defense. When we are weak in our spirits, then we are strong in the Spirit. Such is the wisdom (and folly!) of the Gospel. As long as we continue to live out our faith leaning on Christ Jesus, and not leaning unto our own human resources, the ends of the earth are the limit of the propagation of Gospel of Christ's truth, life, and love. "Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus... He emptied Himself taking on the form of the slave, and being found in human likeness, humbled Himself unto death, even death on a cross." I second Ryan's observation... the instrument of death becomes for us the means of life. So yes, Mr. Keller, CHRISTIANITY CAN SAVE THE WORLD! Of course we all agree that the church is material to God’s economy of salvation. As St. Paul shares, “How will they know, if they haven’t heard, and how will they hear, unless someone preaches to them”, and so we must share the faith; and further, “to some He gave gifts…(such that all might serve various capacities in the Body of Christ)… that we all might come into the full measure of the stature of Christ.” So the church is effectively Christ’s presence in the midst of fallen humanity: bringing those as converts into His saving grace through the power of His word preached, and growing those as disciples into His very presence through the power of the Holy Spirit, as the life of Christ is corporately lived out. And all of this done, as Keller wisely reminds us, not in a posture of spiritual superiority or arrogance, but QUITE THE OPPOSITE! A spirit of self-emptying love and humility. Against such a spirit, the world has no defense. When we are weak in our spirits, then we are strong in the Spirit. Such is the wisdom (and folly!) of the Gospel. As long as we continue to live out our faith leaning on Christ Jesus, and not leaning unto our own human resources, the ends of the earth are the limit of the propagation of Gospel of Christ’s truth, life, and love. “Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus… He emptied Himself taking on the form of the slave, and being found in human likeness, humbled Himself unto death, even death on a cross.” I second Ryan’s observation… the instrument of death becomes for us the means of life. So yes, Mr. Keller, CHRISTIANITY CAN SAVE THE WORLD!

]]> By: ryan http://rlemmel.com/blog/2008/07/14/just-one-way/comment-page-1/#comment-22 ryan Fri, 18 Jul 2008 00:56:33 +0000 http://rlemmel.com/blog/?p=24#comment-22 One aspect of saving the world is accomplised by God continually calling the elect through his appointed means. Our role in this aspect of saving the world is by the speaking of the gospel. Although we don't save anyone, we are the instrument God chooses to use to spread the gospel message. Is this a mandate of the church? Absolutely!!! Also, In the Lord's prayer we pray that God's will be done. His will is to transform the world, therefore we should join him and direct the glory to him. How do we do this? I think Keller puts this well in that we look to the cross and see a man dying for those who hated him. This will help to motivate us to live a life of gratitude that glorifies God. By God calling his elect and the elect looking to carry out the will of the Father the there will be an inbreaking of the Heavenly Kingdom here on earth. In the end of this time the world will be saved, no other religion promises that!!! God Bless!!! One aspect of saving the world is accomplised by God continually calling the elect through his appointed means. Our role in this aspect of saving the world is by the speaking of the gospel. Although we don’t save anyone, we are the instrument God chooses to use to spread the gospel message. Is this a mandate of the church? Absolutely!!! Also, In the Lord’s prayer we pray that God’s will be done. His will is to transform the world, therefore we should join him and direct the glory to him. How do we do this? I think Keller puts this well in that we look to the cross and see a man dying for those who hated him. This will help to motivate us to live a life of gratitude that glorifies God. By God calling his elect and the elect looking to carry out the will of the Father the there will be an inbreaking of the Heavenly Kingdom here on earth. In the end of this time the world will be saved, no other religion promises that!!! God Bless!!!

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